J U V E N T U S: Italians are darker than portuguese

Konrad

02-01-2013, 02:57 PM

Discuss.

Archduke

02-01-2013, 02:58 PM

Italians.

Portuguese people are the darkest in Europe.

Konrad

02-01-2013, 03:00 PM

Portuguese people are the darkest in Europe.

What makes you think so?

Ibericus

02-01-2013, 03:00 PM

Portuguese are lighter I would say.

Archduke

02-01-2013, 03:02 PM

What makes you think so?

Coon

http://www.summagallicana.it/lessico/c/Coon%20Map_Hair_and_Eyes.jpg

Alberta1

02-01-2013, 03:03 PM

Sicilians are even much darker than Kavkaz folks that's should tell you who is Whiter. Although the Portuguese seem to have more SSA influence though.

Corvus

02-01-2013, 03:04 PM

How often are we going to discuss this topic.
It was already the topic of the year 2012

Konrad

02-01-2013, 03:06 PM

How often are we going to discuss this topic.
It was already the topic of the year 2012

Now it's 2013. Everything changed, peoples mixed.

Just90

02-01-2013, 03:11 PM

Italians

I'm giving my opinion based on the football team lol

Like the portuguse have such players as nani , Pepe and some other guys who don't look so white to me

I can only think balotelli for the Italian team lol

Lábaru

02-01-2013, 03:12 PM

Italianos y portugueses deberían no participar en este hilo creado para enfrentarlos como a gallos de pelea.

Ausência Forçada

02-01-2013, 03:24 PM

Just another troll thread, congrats:picard1:
Both portuguese and italians are white europeans.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8663/30mapagenes.png

Sicilians are even much darker than Kavkaz folks that's should tell you who is Whiter. Although the Portuguese seem to have more SSA influence though.

yeah yeah Kavkaz, in iberia something from 0.33% to 1-2% from a neolithic or mesolithic expansion:picard1:

I'm giving my opinion based on the football team lol

Like the portuguse have such players as nani , Pepe and some other guys who don't look so white to me

I can only think balotelli for the Italian team lol

Yes yes, cause Pepe and Nani are native portuguese people?:picard1: laughable.

Philo

02-01-2013, 03:26 PM

Italians.

Joseph Capelli

02-01-2013, 03:40 PM

Morocco is whiter than both of them.

fufuangeli

02-01-2013, 03:43 PM

Ah! A thread to turn Italians and Portugese against each other! Like I haven't seen that one before...

Alberta1

02-01-2013, 03:46 PM

yeah yeah Kavkaz, in iberia something from 0.33% to 1-2% from a neolithic or mesolithic expansion:picard1:

The average Adyghe is much lighter than the average Sicilian

Sicilian

http://s3.postimage.org/97ywa73fn/sicli.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image (http://postimage.org/)

Adyghe

http://s12.postimage.org/jvu5g1ffx/Circassianbeauty3_1.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
photo sharing (http://postimage.org/)

The Sicilian looks like an Arab from Lebanon. Well the Adyghe looks totally European.

Hence why the Kavkazians are Whiter than Italians.

Sicilian children look like Arabs

http://s17.postimage.org/ysnk78y33/Foto_1a.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image hosting (http://postimage.org/)

Adyghe children look white European

http://s9.postimage.org/7uxhwcyzz/Circassiangirl5_1.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image sharing (http://postimage.org/)

Energia

02-01-2013, 03:49 PM

Ah! A thread to turn Italians and Portugese against each other! Like I haven't seen that one before...

but this time none will fall in the trap.
The trolling attempt is too unveiled to everyone, it should have been made smarter, more in depht, to work out well imho :p

Just90

02-01-2013, 03:50 PM

Just another troll thread, congrats:picard1:
Both portuguese and italians are white europeans.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8663/30mapagenes.png

yeah yeah Kavkaz, in iberia something from 0.33% to 1-2% from a neolithic or mesolithic expansion:picard1:

Yes yes, cause Pepe and Nani are native portuguese people?:picard1: laughable.

So ? Is the same as putting a bunch of ppl you find in the Internet who could be Portuguese or not

Isn't that laughable too ?

Joseph Capelli

02-01-2013, 03:52 PM

CW Do you want me to post the autosomal components of the Adyghe? :D

RussiaPrussia

02-01-2013, 03:54 PM

its obvious italians, they were colonialist often during their time by germans

fufuangeli

02-01-2013, 03:54 PM

The average Adyghe is much lighter than the average Sicilian

You're only comaring them to the darkest Italians... I have some Italian heritage and nobody in my family looks that dark unless they get tanned A LOT.

Nice try though.

Alberta1

02-01-2013, 03:58 PM

CW Do you want me to post the autosomal components of the Adyghe? :D

Sure, but they still look whiter than many Sicilians,or Cypriots who are just Hellenized Arabs lol.

Energia

02-01-2013, 04:00 PM

Alberta1

02-01-2013, 04:03 PM

Ah ok since thanks to CW the thread has shifted to a "Sicilians or Adige, who is whiter?" I take the chance make propaganda for the party I'm gonna vote and post the official women candidates who've been elected in the last regional election for the Beppe Grillo's 5 stars Movement...
Sicily like Italy, is a pretty diversified place.

http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/23931_299480486833996_1684598259_n.jpg

Here Adyghe chicks
http://s17.postimage.org/fzbel3vkf/Circassiangirl7.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/9lmbhuqob/full/)
picture hosting (http://postimage.org/)
http://s17.postimage.org/kdfaj7gr3/Circassiangirl8.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
free photo hosting (http://postimage.org/)

Joseph Capelli

02-01-2013, 04:06 PM

Sure, but they still look whiter than many Sicilians,or Cypriots who are just Hellenized Arabs lol.

Ok everything over 0.5%.

Globe13

Sicilian_D
African : 1%
South West Asian : 17.3%
Mediterranean : 40.6%
West Asian : 23.6%
North European : 16.5%

Adygei
Siberian : 3.2%
South West Asian : 7.7%
East Asian : 1.3%
Mediterranean : 21.8%
Artic : 0.8%
West Asian : 49.3%
North European : 15.2%

Philo

02-01-2013, 04:07 PM

Sor Cypriots who are just Hellenized Arabs lol.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/30628234.jpg

Alberta1

02-01-2013, 04:08 PM

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/30628234.jpg

Hellenized Lebanese:)

Philo

02-01-2013, 04:10 PM

Hellenized Lebanese:)

lol ok. I'm still laughing at that MEME.:D

Solin

02-01-2013, 04:17 PM

Hellenized Lebanese:)

Perhpas there could be some influence, but how do you see them as such according to the cluster map posted a page earlier?

acevedoricky

02-01-2013, 04:18 PM

Dominicans

Žołnir

02-01-2013, 04:18 PM

You all pale churkas to me!

CrystalMaiden

02-01-2013, 04:20 PM

I are the whitester...

Slycooper

02-01-2013, 05:01 PM

Portuguese overall

Adamastor

02-01-2013, 05:08 PM

Portuguese are lighter.
This has been attested under the latest (GWAS) Genome-Wide Association Studies of Quantitatively Measured Skin, Hair, and Eye Pigmentation (2012).

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048294.t001&representation=PNG_M

Source:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048294?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048294.t001%22]http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048294?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048294.t001

Coon

http://www.summagallicana.it/lessico/c/Coon%20Map_Hair_and_Eyes.jpg

I have no idea why do people keep posting Carleton S. Coons debunked old maps, as an answer for everything.
That's like saying the earth is flat.

I'll requisite, once again, Peter Frost's maps (2006).

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8183/8364900931_4e03e88795_z.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8469/8365972200_377caeaeaf_z.jpg

Portuguese are lighter.
Italians are darker.
Both are White.

I'm giving my opinion based on the football team lol

Like the portuguese have such players as nani , Pepe and some other guys who don't look so white to me

I can only think balotelli for the Italian team lol

Pepe is Brazilian
Nani is Cape Verdean

If you are going to judge the population of a country based on Sports team.
Then I'd like to see you use the French Football team, when declaring the French.
In fact, I shall do the same to USA and point out that everyone in America looks like the Globetrotters.

Adrian

02-01-2013, 05:16 PM

Austo

02-01-2013, 05:19 PM

italians are lighter.
In north italy are more than just a couple blonds. So the average italian is lighter than the average portuguese

Slycooper

02-01-2013, 05:25 PM

Northern Italians are prob whiter. But overall the Portuguese

Energia

02-01-2013, 05:31 PM

Those new maps are ridicolous, as any map who shows data broken into too much big quantiles...
I mean there's a big difference in being 79% or just 50% light haired yet they count it the same "color" because they broken the data in a trentile group, for a map, to be serious I pretent deciles, at worst...
i.e. from 0 to 10% of say light eyes, then from 11 to 20%, then from 21 to 30% etc
how much useful may be a map according to wich Calabria and Normandy fall under the same group of lighthairedness??

Joseph Capelli

02-01-2013, 05:54 PM

Most of these pigmentation studies have been made with a very small number of samples (20-30 persons) from few places, so they are hardly representative of nations composed by tens of milions of persons.

Sikeliot

02-01-2013, 05:54 PM

It's complicate because Portugal tends to be more homogenous. But this is my understanding:

Portuguese, overall, are "whiter" in the sense of standard Western European looking and with a significant number of people that can pass in Northern Europe.

Northern Italians however may be on average lighter pigmented, but that is just one part of Italy.

The darkest Italians (Sicilians/Calabrese) and darkest Portuguese are of similar pigmentation but the Portuguese will have less of a West Asian influenced look to their features.

So overall, Portuguese.

Joseph Capelli

02-01-2013, 05:59 PM

"West Asian" is a dubious term. Caucasus people are rather depigmented and the Portuguese total SSA+North African+SWA is comparable to the Darkest parts of Italy.

Slycooper

02-01-2013, 06:01 PM

Portuguese have no SSA influence in phenotype.

Allenson

02-01-2013, 06:07 PM

I'ma stay out of this one.

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:08 PM

Portuguese are lighter I would say.

Overall, yes.

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:08 PM

Another moronic thread... Seriously, don't people have better things to do?:picard1:

Sikeliot

02-01-2013, 06:09 PM

"West Asian" is a dubious term. Caucasus people are rather depigmented and the Portuguese total SSA+North African+SWA is comparable to the Darkest parts of Italy.

I was thinking of people like Armenian and Lebanese.

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:09 PM

Italians.

Portuguese people are the darkest in Europe.

Have you ever travelled throughout Portugal? Are you a biological anthropologist?

Joseph Capelli

02-01-2013, 06:09 PM

Portuguese have no SSA influence in phenotype.

:picard1:

Sikeliot

02-01-2013, 06:10 PM

The only Portuguese with a SSA influenced phenotype are some Madeirans and honestly I'd bet you they have recent Cape Verdean ancestry from the early 1900s. A lot of whaling ships went back and forth between the islands.

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:12 PM

Portuguese are lighter.
This has been attested under the latest Genome-Wide Association Studies of Quantitatively Measured Skin, Hair, and Eye Pigmentation.

Source:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048294?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048294.t001%22]http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048294?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048294.t001

I have no idea why do people keep posting Carleton S. Coons debunked old maps, as an answer for everything.
That's like saying the earth is flat.

I'll requisite, once again, Peter Frost's maps.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8183/8364900931_4e03e88795_z.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8469/8365972200_377caeaeaf_z.jpg

Portuguese are lighter.
Italians are darker.
Both are White.

Pepe is Brazilian
Nani is Cape Verdean

If you are going to judge the population of a country based on Sports team.
Then I'd like to see you use the French Football team, when declaring the French.
In fact, I shall do the same to USA and point out that everyone looks like the Globetrotters.

Funny, how some deficient people continue to ignore scientific reality. :picard1:

Sikeliot

02-01-2013, 06:14 PM

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:14 PM

:picard1:

Sorry, Joe, INDIGENOUS Portuguese do not show SSA in phenotype. No argument needed...

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:16 PM

italians are lighter.
In north italy are more than just a couple blonds. So the average italian is lighter than the average portuguese

N. Italy is what percentage of Italy overall? Hmmmm...

Joseph Capelli

02-01-2013, 06:17 PM

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:18 PM

I don't see why anyone would expect Italians to be lighter given that genetically the Portuguese are much closer to Northern Europeans than a southern Italian is and slightly closer than a northern Italian is.. and they lack the (for European standards) high West and Southwest Asian ancestry when combined.

Bizarre propaganda and unrealistic stereotypes. People see whatever they want to see and ignore science. Tea Party like mentality...

Sikeliot

02-01-2013, 06:18 PM

I based my answer off genetics. The genetic reality is that any full blooded Italian is going to be less Northern European influenced and more South and Southwest Asian influenced than any Portuguese.

Granted, Portuguese have more (minor) SSA and more North African, so its a trade-off.

Sigur Rós

02-01-2013, 06:20 PM

They are both equally white/ European,,

Now that on average one might have lighter pigmentation then the other coutnry, yes .

Europeans need to stop comparing each other on their whiteness otherwise will continue dividing each other on this shit while their government rapes you with continues multiculturalism and social re-engineering...

Ausência Forçada

02-01-2013, 06:25 PM

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:25 PM

^ Considering that all Iberians in this forum, Anthropologique and the 2 self hating italian colonials are voting for the Portuguese, this is an interesting results. I can already imagine what the results would be withouth any Iberian...

Why should it matter? I could give two s**ts but science says it's impossible for Italians to be lighter (OVERALL) than INDIGENOUS Portuguese. I have Breton, Spanish (Galician) and N. Portuguese (together Gallaecian) heritage and can tell you that my Iberian family is actually somewhat lighter than my Breton side, OVERALL.

Racial insecurity has reached pathological levels on this forum... Think legitimate science, please and rid yourself of geographical prejudices. I'm waiting for TA to turn into a clown show like Anthroscape.

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:26 PM

Slycooper

02-01-2013, 06:28 PM

:picard1:

What are you face palming at? A native Portuguese has no ssa in there phenotype.

Sikeliot

02-01-2013, 06:28 PM

The SSA and NA inputs are almost entirely ancient.

Yes. So it makes much more sense to me that Portuguese are obviously on average lighter/more Western European looking than Italians are.

Here's the thing. DNA doesn't lie, and neither does science. If science says Portuguese are nearly 40% Northern European (and another 40% Southern European and everything else is whatever is left), that's what they are, and people can try to dismiss this reality by saying it's "self-hating" but it's not self-hating, it's scientifically correct.

Joseph Capelli

02-01-2013, 06:32 PM

Why should it matter? I could give two s**ts but science says it's impossible for Italians to be lighter (OVERALL) than INDIGENOUS Portuguese. I have Breton, Spanish (Galician) and N. Portuguese (together Gallaecian) heritage and can tell you that my Iberian family is actually somewhat lighter than my Breton side, OVERALL.

Racial insecurity has reached pathological levels on this forum... Think legitimate science, please and rid yourself of geographical prejudices. I'm waiting for TA to turn into a clown show like Anthroscape.

The North European input is 90% Mesolitich admix from La Brana like people. So it is not some kind of viking ancestry as you are trying to represent it.

Sikeliot

02-01-2013, 06:33 PM

Well either way it's more than Italians have.

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:33 PM

Yes. So it makes much more sense to me that Portuguese are obviously on average lighter/more Western European looking than Italians are.

Here's the thing. DNA doesn't lie, and neither does science. If science says Portuguese are nearly 40% Northern European (and another 40% Southern European and everything else is whatever is left), that's what they are, and people can try to dismiss this reality by saying it's "self-hating" but it's not self-hating, it's scientifically correct.

Exactly...That's why I say that racial insecurity has reached pathological levels for some people on this forum. A population genetics researcher - and psychiatrists - would laugh themselves silly. At the end of the day, what the nay sayers post is pure rubbish... Racial Tea Party fools.

Joseph Capelli

02-01-2013, 06:34 PM

Well either way it's more than Italians have.

Funny is that the North African input is neolitich so invisible, but the much older Mesolitich North Euro admix is visible. Retard logic.

PS Anthro stop throwing ad hominens. You are becoming annoying.

Sikeliot

02-01-2013, 06:34 PM

Exactly...That's why I say that racial insecurity has reached pathological levels for some people on this forum. A population genetics researcher - and psychiatrists - would laugh themselves silly. At the end of the day, what the nay sayers post is pure rubbish... Racial Tea Party fools.

I ran into the same problem when people got mad at me for saying that a Sicilian and Greek are halfway between an Iberian and an Assyrian/Druze/etc. It may be an unpopular or an uncomfortable thought, but you know what -- it's true. And science shows it.

Sikeliot

02-01-2013, 06:35 PM

Funny is that the North African input is neolitich so invisible, but the much older Mesolitich North Euro admix is visible. Retard logic.

One of them makes up 3-5% of their DNA, the other makes up 40%.

Sigur Rós

02-01-2013, 06:36 PM

:thumb001::clap2:
most of the times are not even europeans that start these "discussions"...
No more brother wars

Who ever made this thread was on purpose of trolling maybe, he proably knows this has been discusses many other countless times before (Not saying that it was like it but a probability)...

Yes. So it makes much more sense to me that Portuguese are obviously on average lighter/more Western European looking than Italians are.

Here's the thing. DNA doesn't lie, and neither does science. If science says Portuguese are nearly 40% Northern European (and another 40% Southern European and everything else is whatever is left), that's what they are, and people can try to dismiss this reality by saying it's "self-hating" but it's not self-hating, it's scientifically correct.

that Portuguese might be more Western Euro then Italians, yes true, but it doesn't stop either party from being differently white from one another, it's ridiculous even to someone who isn't from there like me. From my angle/ point of view it look more like a family or domestic fight then anything (symbolically speaking) on who's better, richer and stuff like that.

Adamastor

02-01-2013, 06:36 PM

Funny, how some deficient people continue to ignore scientific reality. :picard1:

Italians have a much higher exposure in overall media.
So, it's only normal for people to cast a vote in their favor.
(The Balkans seem to hate Iberians, as well)

People vote in accordance to opinion, not deed.

^ Considering that all Iberians in this forum, Anthropologique and the 2 self hating italian colonials are voting for the Portuguese, this is an interesting results. I can already imagine what the results would be withouth any Iberian...

The poll is like a popularity contest.
If it served you of consultation, I'm happy for you, but that doesn't change the facts (http://dienekes.blogspot.pt/2012/11/gwas-study-of-pigmentation-in-four.html).

Italians are darker in comparison to Portuguese.

Most of these pigmentation studies have been made with a very small number of samples (20-30 persons) from few places, so they are hardly representative of nations composed by tens of milions of persons.

Stop making false statements, who's study, you haven't read in the first place..
I suggest you read the study.

How many test subjects did Carleton S. Coon have?
Did they even have accurate instruments in that time?
Wait... did Coon even travel through Europe, for his thesis?

Joseph Capelli

02-01-2013, 06:37 PM

One of them makes up 3-5% of their DNA, the other makes up 40%.

Portuguese score 7-8% Mozabite berber on Dodecad K12b. And the SSA is beyond 3% on the last Dodecad Globe runs.

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:38 PM

The North European input is 90% Mesolitich admix from La Brana like people. So it is not some kind of viking ancestry as you are trying to represent it.

"Represent?" I didn't mention, Vikings. Please, Joe, I once thought you were a reasonable person... My heavens, face reality.

Of course there is Viking input in all of my heritage components. Ever studied up on coastal Galicia and a places named Povoa de Varzim and Villa do Conde in N. Portugal?

Racial insecurity is a serious illness...

Il Principe

02-01-2013, 06:38 PM

Northern and Central Italians are whiter. Southern Italians, who should really be their own country, are less white.

I did not vote, by the way.

Exactly...That's why I say that racial insecurity has reached pathological levels for some people on this forum.
For which people, you? Your overly emotional reactions to all threads that (even tangentially) relate to whiteness and Iberians is certainly not a sign of racial security, to put it that way.

Sikeliot

02-01-2013, 06:38 PM

Portuguese score 7-8% Mozabite berber on Dodecad K12b. And the SSA is beyond 3% on the last Dodecad Globe runs.

Well if they were as much Berber and SSA as they were Northern European then you'd have a case.

I will say though that the Berid type in Iberia is most likely the phenotype associated with the remnants of Berber ancestry they have.. it is very similar to the Berberid type and appears more frequently in places in Europe with higher Berber affinity.

Joseph Capelli

02-01-2013, 06:39 PM

Northern and Central Italians are whiter. Southern Italians, who should really be their own country, are less white.

I agree. Although South Italians are not genetically homogeneus. Some groups like the Campanians are closer to the Tuscans than to the Sicilians.

bimo

02-01-2013, 06:39 PM

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:41 PM

Northern and Central Italians are whiter. Southern Italians, who should really be their own country, are less white.

For which people, you? Your over-emotional reactions to all threads that relate to whiteness and Iberians is certainly not a sign of racial security, to put it that way.

Me? "Overemotional?" "All threads?" You can't be serious. :picard1: I believe in science, guy. The truth. You are starting arguments where none are needed.

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:43 PM

peter frost at least have a primacy

he maked the most stupid maps in the world , especially for eyes

Nearly of these type maps are grossly inaccurate.

Malta1066Falzon

02-01-2013, 06:44 PM

The average Adyghe is much lighter than the average Sicilian

Sicilian

http://s3.postimage.org/97ywa73fn/sicli.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image (http://postimage.org/)

Adyghe

http://s12.postimage.org/jvu5g1ffx/Circassianbeauty3_1.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
photo sharing (http://postimage.org/)

The Sicilian looks like an Arab from Lebanon. Well the Adyghe looks totally European.

Hence why the Kavkazians are Whiter than Italians.

Sicilian children look like Arabs

http://s17.postimage.org/ysnk78y33/Foto_1a.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image hosting (http://postimage.org/)

Adyghe children look white European

http://s9.postimage.org/7uxhwcyzz/Circassiangirl5_1.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image sharing (http://postimage.org/)

There is no such thing as 'average Sicilian' or 'average Maltese', you picked the darkest type from the spectrum and compared it with the lightest of Adyghe people. You are Adyghe yet you look very Arab.

These threads only serve to troll.

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:44 PM

Funny is that the North African input is neolitich so invisible, but the much older Mesolitich North Euro admix is visible. Retard logic.

PS Anthro stop throwing ad hominens. You are becoming annoying.

Joe, get back to being reasonable.

Slycooper

02-01-2013, 06:46 PM

Comparing the entire country. Portuguese

Adamastor

02-01-2013, 06:46 PM

peter frost at least have a primacy

he make the most stupid maps in the world , especially for eyes

Your accusations are based on what?

Peter Frost's specialty in the anthropological field is about Hair, Eyes and Skin pigmentation, something Carelton S. Coon wasn't.

Between Frost and Coon... I'd say, Frost gave a much better representation of Europe, than theoretical Coon.

Sikeliot

02-01-2013, 06:47 PM

There is no such thing as 'average Sicilian' or 'average Maltese', you picked the darkest type from the spectrum and compared it with the lightest of Adyghe people. You are Adyghe yet you look very Arab.

These threads only serve to troll.

His photos represent the darkest 1/4 of the Sicilian and Maltese populations, and although not what the "average" looks like (which IMO is more like my avatar photo now), what he posted can prove a valuable point. A Portuguese of equal complexion will not have West Asian influenced features.

Joseph Capelli

02-01-2013, 06:47 PM

Joe, get back to being reasonable.

I've found a logical fallacy in your speech. Nothing personal.

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:47 PM

Your accusations are based on what?

Peter Frost's specialty in the anthropological field is about Hair, Eyes and Skin pigmentation, something Carelton S. Coon wasn't.
Whereas Carelton S. Coon was nothing more than pseudo theories.

Between Frost and Coon... I'd say, Frost gave a much better representation of Europe, than theoretical Coon.

Better than Coon but still very flawed.

Il Principe

02-01-2013, 06:48 PM

I agree. Although South Italians are not genetically homogeneus.
True, true. Italy is possibly the most heterogeneous European country - which is why it's useless to compare Italy's whiteness with that of Portugal, since the term "Italian" covers anything from Piedmontese to Sicilians. To any human eye, it's obvious that the former are racially closer to Swiss while the latter are closer to Levantines and Greeks. And even in Sicily, there is a huge diversity among the locals.

Some groups like the Campanians are closer to the Tuscans than to the Sicilians.
Tuscans are very Central Italian (the strongest blood ties to the Romans are found there, and the "Roman nose" is not uncommon). I wasn't aware of this connection to Campanians.

Me? "Overemotional?" "All threads?" You can't be serious.
Tut-tut. Every post of yours in this thread is decreasing the whiteness of Iberia, bringing the Italians closer to victory. ;)

bimo

02-01-2013, 06:49 PM

There is no such thing as 'average Sicilian' or 'average Maltese', you picked the darkest type from the spectrum and compared it with the lightest of Adyghe people.

These threads only serve to troll.

circassian have typical troll/nordic wannabe behavior

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:50 PM

I've found a logical fallacy in your speach. Nothing personal.

Sorry you think that way. Legitimate science speaks truth... it is only the biased who do not listen. Don't like what you read, just ignore it...

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:52 PM

True, true. Italy is possibly the most heterogeneous European country - which is why it's useless to compare Italy's whiteness with that of Portugal, since the term "Italian" covers anything from Piedmontese to Sicilians. To any human eye, it's obvious that the former are racially closer to Swiss while the latter are closer to Levantines and Greeks. And even in Sicily, there is a huge diversity among the locals.

Tuscans are very Central Italian (the strongest blood ties to the Romans are found there, and the "Roman nose" is not uncommon). I wasn't aware of this connection to Campanians.

Tut-tut. Every post of yours in this thread is decreasing the whiteness of Iberia, bringing the Italians closer to victory. ;)

I didn't realize this was some sort of contest. :rolleyes: Your biased POV is clearly showing. Enough said.

Atlantic Islander

02-01-2013, 06:53 PM

Ridiculous question.

bimo

02-01-2013, 06:53 PM

Your accusations are based on what?

Peter Frost's specialty in the anthropological field is about Hair, Eyes and Skin pigmentation, something Carelton S. Coon wasn't.

Between Frost and Coon... I'd say, Frost gave a much better representation of Europe, than theoretical Coon.

c'mon dude , moroccans more light eyes than italians ??? greeks and turks more light eyed than bulgarians ??? :picard2:
and sorry but i can't agree on that iberian are lighter than southern italians (i am not southern italian so i am neutral on that)

do you see how people for real look ? or you based all on the maps ?

Slycooper

02-01-2013, 06:55 PM

Portuguese are whiter than south italians.

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:57 PM

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 06:58 PM

The word should be LIGHTER, not "whiter."

spaniard69

02-01-2013, 06:59 PM

Who are whiter? Portuguese or Italians?

:picard1:
One more time, the circus Price comes back to your city!

My answer, based on personal experiences: I certainly don't know who are whiter or who have longer dick, but I know who is the assholer: the albanian who started this thread.

Adamastor

02-01-2013, 07:00 PM

c'mon dude , moroccans more light eyes than italians ??? greeks and turks more light eyed than bulgarians ??? :picard2:
and sorry but i can't agree on that iberian are lighter than southern italians (i am not southern italian so i am neutral on that)

do you see how people for real look ? or you based all on the maps ?

The study (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048294?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048294.t001) (2012), conducted by Sophie I. Candille, Devin M. Absher, Sandra Beleza, Marc Bauchet, Brian McEvoy, Nanibaa’ A. Garrison, Jun Z. Li, Richard M. Myers, Gregory S. Barsh, Hua Tang and Mark D. Shriver came to support and supplement Peter Frost's maps (2006).

If you wish to neglect the maps, do it as you please.
But the study is still there, and it concludes what Peter Frost submitted in the first place.

The results are the same to similar.
Italians are darker than Portuguese.

Sikeliot

02-01-2013, 07:03 PM

Any PCA plot would put Portuguese closer to Northern Europe than any Italian is, so I'll use Dodecad scores.

I do them in order of greatest component to least.

Portuguese:

Mediterranean: 46.9
North European: 35
Southwest Asian: 7.9
West Asian: 6
East African: 1.6
West African: 1.3
South Asian: 1
Amerindian: 0.1
Australasian: 0.1

Northern Italian:

Mediterranean: 42.5
North European: 34
West Asian: 14.4
Southwest Asian: 9
Australasian: 0.1

Sicilian:

Mediterranean: 40.6
West Asian: 23.6
Southwest Asian: 17.3
North Euro: 16.5
West African: 1
East African: 0.5
Palaeo-African: 0.2
Australasian: 0.2
East Asian: 0.1

dp93

02-01-2013, 07:08 PM

Neither by U.S.A standards. The only place where "whiteness" actually matters.

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 07:09 PM

Sky earth

02-01-2013, 07:10 PM

Based on what I've seen on the in Internet I would say that the Portuguese people are lighter than the Italians. The high Western Asian component and Southwestern component in Italians make them look swarthier. But some Portuguese people have some African look in them so the decision was not easy

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 07:14 PM

Based on what I've seen on the in Internet I would say that the Portuguese people are lighter than the Italians. The high Western Asian component and Southwestern component in Italians make them look swarthier.

Just review what the autosomal and pigmentation studies shows. Pretty clear. That's why this thread is plain puerile.

bimo

02-01-2013, 07:15 PM

The study (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048294?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048294.t001) (2012), conducted by Sophie I. Candille, Devin M. Absher, Sandra Beleza, Marc Bauchet, Brian McEvoy, Nanibaa’ A. Garrison, Jun Z. Li, Richard M. Myers, Gregory S. Barsh, Hua Tang and Mark D. Shriver came to support and supplement Peter Frost's maps (2006).

If you wish to neglect the maps, do it as you please.
But the study is still there, and it concludes what Peter Frost submitted in the first place.

The results are the same to similar.
Italians are darker than Portuguese.

this is close to what i see on real life

http://shrani.si/f/6/TW/XvC5g7o/hair--eyes-pigmentation-.jpg

http://shrani.si/files/europepopd1090536.jpg

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 07:19 PM

this is close to what i see on real life

http://shrani.si/f/6/TW/XvC5g7o/hair--eyes-pigmentation-.jpg

http://shrani.si/files/europepopd1090536.jpg

That represents what Coon "researched." The map has been debunked countless times. Ignore legitimate science at your own intellectual risk.

Corvus

02-01-2013, 07:23 PM

bimo

02-01-2013, 07:24 PM

That represents what Coon "researched." The map has been debunked countless times. Ignore legitimate science at your own intellectual risk.

you say that because you don't like the map :D

Adamastor

02-01-2013, 07:25 PM

this is close to what i see on real life

http://shrani.si/f/6/TW/XvC5g7o/hair--eyes-pigmentation-.jpg

http://shrani.si/files/europepopd1090536.jpg

What you want to see, is not what it is.
Just because you believe it to be that way, it doesn't make it so.
Neither do you dictate what is true or not.

Leave it to the anthropologists not theorists.

If you are going to post a map from the late 30's, from which that map did not even have accurate instruments, concrete samples nor fundamentalism on it's construction, might as well use much more ancient cartography of the early world maps. Because in semantics, what you are doing is...

This is the map of Europe, as we know it.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Mappa_di_Eratostene.jpg

Zarathustra

02-01-2013, 07:29 PM

There no such thing as ''some people are whiter than others'' all Europeans are ''white'' regardless pigmentation.

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 07:29 PM

you say that because you don't like the map :D

No... Obviously you know nothing about Coon. Bottom line, read the science, it rules. Who really cares who is lighter or darker...

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 07:30 PM

There no such thing as ''some people are whiter than others'' all Europeans are ''white'' regardless pigmentation.

Thank you. :thumb001:

Anthropologique

02-01-2013, 07:32 PM

What you want to see, is not what it is.
Just because you believe it to be that way, it doesn't make it so.
Neither do you dictate what is true or not.

Leave it to the anthropologists not theorists.

If you are going to post a map from the late 30's, from which that map did not even have accurate instruments, concrete samples nor fundamentalism on it's construction, might as well use much more ancient cartography of the early world maps. Because in semantics, what you are doing is...

This is the map of Europe, as we know it.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Mappa_di_Eratostene.jpg

Now you can see why knowledgeable people view prole "anthro" threads as rubbish. :rolleyes:

Alex Delarge

02-01-2013, 07:33 PM

Portuguese score 7-8% Mozabite berber on Dodecad K12b.

Curious, because i score 8.7% northwest african on k12b, and yet this was how you classified me, so i'm not sure of what you meant with your sentence above:

Atlantid+CM. People saying Med are retards.

And the SSA is beyond 3% on the last Dodecad Globe runs.

Only shows up if north africans aren't present on runs. What kind of SSA admix is that? Should be 3% consistantly on every run, and McDonald should have picked it up on me:

http://oi54.tinypic.com/8zdw0k.jpg

It's like the mesolithic Iberians. They were 10% african on one lower K run, then on the next run with a higher K the african magically turned into Asian.

Zarathustra

02-01-2013, 07:35 PM

We have to view this issue a little bit
differentiated.

Northern Italians look like Western Austrians and Swiss. But as in these countries there are also some Mediterranian looking people among them. About a quarter of the population.
Central Italians often show antic Roman features. Blue eyes often accompanied by blonde hair is not uncommon among them
Southern Italians are predominantly Mediterranian. A small percentage is Keltic Nordic looking due to Norman intrusion.

Portugese on the other hand look almost
throughout Atlanto Med. Blue eyes is almost standard there, but concerning pigmentation they are not lighter than Italians at least not in summer.

Portougal is more homogeneus than Italy (which has a lot of variation) as you said, Portouguese are mainly atlantid/atlantomediterranid in terms of look but they are definitly darker pigmentation-wise than extreme Northen Italians and either similar to Central-South Italians (but pheraps lighter than extreme Southerns).
Northen Italians tend to look quite similar to Central European populations (Thought darker) and indeed quite different from portouguese (except Ligurians that can be compared due to their atlantomed look) thought they yet mostly brown haired/eyed.

Corvus

02-01-2013, 07:39 PM

Portougal is less homogeneus than Italy (which has a lot of variation) as you said, Portouguese are mainly atlantid/atlantomediterranid in terms of look but they are definitly darker pigmentation-wise than extreme Northen Italians and either similar to Central-South Italians (but pheraps lighter than extreme Southerns).
Northen Italians tend to look quite similar to Central European populations (Thought darker) and indeed quite different from portouguese (except Ligurians that can be compared due to their atlantomed look) thought they yet mostly brown haired/eyed.

I agree, but I think you mean less heterogenous than Italy :)

In the end we can say: Why do we compare Portugese with Italians.
They are two populations with different characteristics.
Both countries belong to Southern Europe but I see not many other relations.
This thread does not make sense at all.

bimo

02-01-2013, 07:39 PM

No... Obviously you know nothing about Coon. Bottom line, read the science, it rules. Who really cares who is lighter or darker...

dude i am not pro-coon , i also know he never visited some nation of which he speak , but my point is just that the map i posted are closed to the reality
ok maps can help on anthropology studies , but reality is reality , how can i believe the map from frost were moroccans are lighter than italians and turks lighter than bulgarians lol :coffee:

bimo

02-01-2013, 07:40 PM

There no such thing as ''some people are whiter than others'' all Europeans are ''white'' regardless pigmentation.

that's for sure :thumb001:

Solin

02-01-2013, 07:43 PM

There no such thing as ''some people are whiter than others'' all Europeans are ''white'' regardless pigmentation.

Not all Europeans are white. You can be white or not white. Those who are not white are of mixed race.

West and East Slavs, all (Celto)Germanics, majority of Hungarians, Swiss, French, Basques, Baltics, Finns, Moldovans are white people ( by race not by some lousy fictional term like European) and the specific people from other countries not mentioned are white. The rest are of mixed race.

Atlantic Islander

02-01-2013, 07:44 PM

This thread does not make sense at all.

That's because it's not meant to make sense, it's meant to troll and cause conflict.

Dacul

02-01-2013, 07:46 PM

North italians are lightest,that is certain.

Zarathustra

02-01-2013, 07:59 PM

Not all Europeans are white. You can be white or not white. Those who are not white are of mixed race.

West and East Slavs, all (Celto)Germanics, majority of Hungarians, Swiss, French, Basques, Baltics, Finns, Moldovans are white people ( by race not by some lousy fictional term like European) and the specific people from other countries not mentioned are white. The rest are of mixed race.

I think the term ''white'' can be refered to all European population, of course Europeans have a lot of differences and variation among them but that doesn't mean some population are ''whiter'' than others, what should be the criteria to decide that? They are merely subjective).

Sikeliot

02-01-2013, 08:18 PM

The thread starter has been banned anyway -- should we even keep this thread going?

Corvus

02-01-2013, 08:22 PM

No close it. All things are said

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-69890.html

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