What surprises me is France overall has little amount of fair hair and
eyes compared to eastern, central, and north Europe so most of Europe.
Even though ancient Roman writers almost always described the Gauls as
having blonde hair and light eyes that was like their stero typical Gaul
even the Gauls in northern Italy. The Gaulic warriors did spike up
their hair with something that would cause it to be a yellow like color
which Romans mentioned. And almost all the Phyiscal descriptions i saw
of Gauls was during war so that is when they would have the spiked dyed
hair.
Fire Haired
13-09-13, 22:14
I
know there is not enough Y DNA to say excatley how it is spread out but
there is still a really good idea. And i guess France is one of the
worst since it is against the law to take a paternity test on the
internet or telephone. (Ordering a DNA test in France is punshible by
heavy fines and jail time
(https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHaplogr
oup_I-M438&ei=aGkzUv2sC461qQHVvoGIBg&usg=AFQjCNEiSnsIvsx-15FO25kv1nmn1_9HwA&sig2=LZnC-n_4TbaG0H1PXqoyaA&bvm=bv.52164340,d.aWM)).
But i have notice a connection with the high amount of dark hair round
70-80% in central France and were Y DNA E1b1b and J1 are most popular in
Eupedi's maps.
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E1b1b.jpg
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-J1.gif
http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/blond_hair_map1.jpg
I guess it is not just central France map also northern Italy. There is no doubt in my opinion the distribution of E1b1b and J1 in the area of central France and north eastern Italy is connected and come form the same source. Since both are non European E1b1b originally probably from northeast Africa and J1 from the middle east it kind of make sense that could be why that area of France has so much more dark hair than eastern France. I know E1b1b V13 which was found in 7,000 year old Neolithic Y DNA sample in northern Spain spread in Europe with farming mainly from 9,000-6,000ybp. I dont know if the E1b1b is central France is mainly E1b1b V13 i guess other subclades of E1b1b M78 E1b1b V13's father could have been spread with it so those can maybe also be from the spread of farming in Europe. I don't know that much about J1 subclades but i would not be surprised even though from 31 Neolithic Y DNa samples not one had J1 that J1 was also partly spread in Europe with farming.
There is no doubt when u look at Aust DNa there was a huge amount of mid eastern inter marriage from around Syria in Italy, Greece, and southeast Europe during the Greco Roman age. And i am sure alot of the J1 and J2 some of the E1b1b in mainly Mediterranean Europe but also throughout Europe is from the Greco Roman age. Maybe some of the J1 and E1b1b is from Roman Gaul i don't know.
What surprises me is France overall has little amount of fair hair and eyes compared to eastern, central, and north Europe so most of Europe. Even though ancient Roman writers almost always described the Gauls as having blonde hair and light eyes that was like their stero typical Gaul even the Gauls in northern Italy. The Gaulic warriors did spike up their hair with something that would cause it to be a yellow like color which Romans mentioned. And almost all the Phyiscal descriptions i saw of Gauls was during war so that is when they would have the spiked dyed hair.
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E1b1b.jpg
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-J1.gif
http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/blond_hair_map1.jpg
I guess it is not just central France map also northern Italy. There is no doubt in my opinion the distribution of E1b1b and J1 in the area of central France and north eastern Italy is connected and come form the same source. Since both are non European E1b1b originally probably from northeast Africa and J1 from the middle east it kind of make sense that could be why that area of France has so much more dark hair than eastern France. I know E1b1b V13 which was found in 7,000 year old Neolithic Y DNA sample in northern Spain spread in Europe with farming mainly from 9,000-6,000ybp. I dont know if the E1b1b is central France is mainly E1b1b V13 i guess other subclades of E1b1b M78 E1b1b V13's father could have been spread with it so those can maybe also be from the spread of farming in Europe. I don't know that much about J1 subclades but i would not be surprised even though from 31 Neolithic Y DNa samples not one had J1 that J1 was also partly spread in Europe with farming.
There is no doubt when u look at Aust DNa there was a huge amount of mid eastern inter marriage from around Syria in Italy, Greece, and southeast Europe during the Greco Roman age. And i am sure alot of the J1 and J2 some of the E1b1b in mainly Mediterranean Europe but also throughout Europe is from the Greco Roman age. Maybe some of the J1 and E1b1b is from Roman Gaul i don't know.
What surprises me is France overall has little amount of fair hair and eyes compared to eastern, central, and north Europe so most of Europe. Even though ancient Roman writers almost always described the Gauls as having blonde hair and light eyes that was like their stero typical Gaul even the Gauls in northern Italy. The Gaulic warriors did spike up their hair with something that would cause it to be a yellow like color which Romans mentioned. And almost all the Phyiscal descriptions i saw of Gauls was during war so that is when they would have the spiked dyed hair.
adamo
13-09-13, 23:40
What
about J2 or T; populations that probably had black hair as well; but
what about maternal components coming and skewing your entire view;
considering even a J1 man could have blond hair and blue eyes!
adamo
13-09-13, 23:41
The
french, actually, are lighter eyed than you may even think. They are
certainly more "white Paleolithic European component", than
Mediterranean; this is for sure.
Fire Haired
13-09-13, 23:51
What
about J2 or T; populations that probably had black hair as well; but
what about maternal components coming and skewing your entire view;
considering even a J1 man could have blond hair and blue eyes!
I know there is maternal stuff but i can defintley say there is a connection with Y DNA J1 and E1b1b in France and dark hair. So what if someone with J1 can have blonde hair and blue eyes i am sure there are alot. J1 is just a direct male lineage. y DNa R1 was originally Mongliod but over complicated stuff R1a1a1 M417 and R1b1a2a1 L51 was spread by Indo Europeans so they are extremely popular in Europeans. (Y DNa spread by INdo EUropean languages (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?91971-Y-DNA-spread-by-Indo-Europeans-(R1a1a1-M417-R1b1a2a1-L51)-(R1b1a2a-L23-R1b1a1-M73-Etc-)))
I know there is maternal stuff but i can defintley say there is a connection with Y DNA J1 and E1b1b in France and dark hair. So what if someone with J1 can have blonde hair and blue eyes i am sure there are alot. J1 is just a direct male lineage. y DNa R1 was originally Mongliod but over complicated stuff R1a1a1 M417 and R1b1a2a1 L51 was spread by Indo Europeans so they are extremely popular in Europeans. (Y DNa spread by INdo EUropean languages (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?91971-Y-DNA-spread-by-Indo-Europeans-(R1a1a1-M417-R1b1a2a1-L51)-(R1b1a2a-L23-R1b1a1-M73-Etc-)))
Fire Haired
14-09-13, 00:04
The
french, actually, are lighter eyed than you may even think. They are
certainly more "white Paleolithic European component", than
Mediterranean; this is for sure.
I am just going off of what these maps say which are made from real records. I don't know what the white Paleolithic component is. If ur talking about aust dna almost all tests including globe13 all the group that originated in Europe probably in the Paleolithic age North Euro, North east Euro, or Atlantic Baltic. The Mediterranean is so confusing. If u look ate the Caucasian family in globe13 u have very very close brother North Euro and west Asian they are closer than any other two human groups according to their graph then u have med and southwest Asian which are not that close but still technically closest to each other.
North Euro obviously is from Paleolithic people that settled Europe maybe not the only just the last surviving. west asian is also obvisouly centered from Caucusm Anatolia, northern Iraq, to Iran. Southwest Asian is obvisouly centered around Arabia and iu guess Palestine and Israel. THen North Africa is a mi of med and southwest Asian. But Med is spread out everywhere we know it most likely came to Europe with the spread of farming mainly from 9,000-6,000ybp but it is most popular in Europe. Looking at the Y DNA these farmers spread in Europe for sure G2a and E V13 with other E M78 it shows they had to of come form the mid east just like farming they didn't come from as east as Iran or as south as Arabia.
aust dna samples of two Neolithic Europeans Otzie 5,300ybp in alps Italy and Gok4 5,000ybp in south sweden. Both were completely dominated by Med over 59% in globe13. Sardine people island next to Italy i cant show all the sources but i have seen so many times they are shown as extreme close relatives to these farmers in globe13 they have 72% med and only 16% North Euro but look totally white. They look like Italians from what i have seen even though Italians have so much more west asian and southwest asian that came in Greco Roman age.
Why did the farmers have so much med?
Why did they have white skin like the hunter gathers even though they came from the mid east?
Why when on average Europeans have about 50% in globe13 north euro the rest being from the mid east in the last 9,000 years. Then why are Europeans so much paler. Sami who have almost 80% North Euro look really no diff from French who have about 50%? it just doesn't make any sense.
I am wondering that maybe the Med in all these test doesn't exist. And that i don't know maybe there are European versions i think the testers go of form ideas that somehow people around the med sea are related. when they are not.
I am just going off of what these maps say which are made from real records. I don't know what the white Paleolithic component is. If ur talking about aust dna almost all tests including globe13 all the group that originated in Europe probably in the Paleolithic age North Euro, North east Euro, or Atlantic Baltic. The Mediterranean is so confusing. If u look ate the Caucasian family in globe13 u have very very close brother North Euro and west Asian they are closer than any other two human groups according to their graph then u have med and southwest Asian which are not that close but still technically closest to each other.
North Euro obviously is from Paleolithic people that settled Europe maybe not the only just the last surviving. west asian is also obvisouly centered from Caucusm Anatolia, northern Iraq, to Iran. Southwest Asian is obvisouly centered around Arabia and iu guess Palestine and Israel. THen North Africa is a mi of med and southwest Asian. But Med is spread out everywhere we know it most likely came to Europe with the spread of farming mainly from 9,000-6,000ybp but it is most popular in Europe. Looking at the Y DNA these farmers spread in Europe for sure G2a and E V13 with other E M78 it shows they had to of come form the mid east just like farming they didn't come from as east as Iran or as south as Arabia.
aust dna samples of two Neolithic Europeans Otzie 5,300ybp in alps Italy and Gok4 5,000ybp in south sweden. Both were completely dominated by Med over 59% in globe13. Sardine people island next to Italy i cant show all the sources but i have seen so many times they are shown as extreme close relatives to these farmers in globe13 they have 72% med and only 16% North Euro but look totally white. They look like Italians from what i have seen even though Italians have so much more west asian and southwest asian that came in Greco Roman age.
Why did the farmers have so much med?
Why did they have white skin like the hunter gathers even though they came from the mid east?
Why when on average Europeans have about 50% in globe13 north euro the rest being from the mid east in the last 9,000 years. Then why are Europeans so much paler. Sami who have almost 80% North Euro look really no diff from French who have about 50%? it just doesn't make any sense.
I am wondering that maybe the Med in all these test doesn't exist. And that i don't know maybe there are European versions i think the testers go of form ideas that somehow people around the med sea are related. when they are not.
autochthon
24-09-13, 21:53
Is hair color carried by the Y-chromosome? I don't think it is.
Fire Haired
24-09-13, 23:10
Is hair color carried by the Y-chromosome? I don't think it is.
That is not what I am saying it is just I have noticed E1b1b and J1 are supringly high in central France compared to the areas surrounding them and same with the dark hair in central FRance. Since J1 originated in the mid east and E1b1b in North Africa but almost all E1b1b in Eurasia is under E1b1b V68 which came to Europe through the mid east as subclade E1b1b V13 ainly with the spread of farming 9,000-6,000ybp. So maybe those are the reasons why central France have so much more dark hair than people surrounding them. I don't really know it is just a though.
That is not what I am saying it is just I have noticed E1b1b and J1 are supringly high in central France compared to the areas surrounding them and same with the dark hair in central FRance. Since J1 originated in the mid east and E1b1b in North Africa but almost all E1b1b in Eurasia is under E1b1b V68 which came to Europe through the mid east as subclade E1b1b V13 ainly with the spread of farming 9,000-6,000ybp. So maybe those are the reasons why central France have so much more dark hair than people surrounding them. I don't really know it is just a though.
autochthon
24-09-13, 23:38
That
is not what I am saying it is just I have noticed E1b1b and J1 are
supringly high in central France compared to the areas surrounding them
and same with the dark hair in central FRance. Since J1 originated in
the mid east and E1b1b in North Africa but almost all E1b1b in Eurasia
is under E1b1b V68 which came to Europe through the mid east as subclade
E1b1b V13 ainly with the spread of farming 9,000-6,000ybp. So maybe
those are the reasons why central France have so much more dark hair
than people surrounding them. I don't really know it is just a though.
... But if hair color isn't carried by the Y-chromosome, then "where" Y-DNA haplogroups originated would tell you literally nothing about hair color. Right?
... But if hair color isn't carried by the Y-chromosome, then "where" Y-DNA haplogroups originated would tell you literally nothing about hair color. Right?
Fire Haired
24-09-13, 23:42
...
But if hair color isn't carried by the Y-chromosome, then "where" Y-DNA
haplogroups originated would tell you literally nothing about hair
color. Right?
No but it shows inter marriage with a people group. Like Finnish have over 50% Y DNa N1c1 which is Monglliod it migrate dthere about 8,000ybp this also explains why in so many dif aust dna tests Finnis get around 5-10% Mongliod groups while the rest of Europe gets uselly 0%.
No but it shows inter marriage with a people group. Like Finnish have over 50% Y DNa N1c1 which is Monglliod it migrate dthere about 8,000ybp this also explains why in so many dif aust dna tests Finnis get around 5-10% Mongliod groups while the rest of Europe gets uselly 0%.
autochthon
25-09-13, 00:09
No
but it shows inter marriage with a people group. Like Finnish have over
50% Y DNa N1c1 which is Monglliod it migrate dthere about 8,000ybp this
also explains why in so many dif aust dna tests Finnis get around 5-10%
Mongliod groups while the rest of Europe gets uselly 0%.
Yes, but if the autosomal contributions are that small, then it would be quite difficult to pick anything out of the resulting "noise", particularly when it's based on anecdotal observation. And this is especially true of traits which aren't particularly unique -- like dark hair.
Yes, but if the autosomal contributions are that small, then it would be quite difficult to pick anything out of the resulting "noise", particularly when it's based on anecdotal observation. And this is especially true of traits which aren't particularly unique -- like dark hair.
Fire Haired
25-09-13, 00:16
Dark
hair is more dominate than fair in the genes so it would be much easier
to do change the hair color to be darker its possible that's the
source.
autochthon
25-09-13, 03:49
Believe what you wish, but I find your line of reasoning sparse and uncompelling. I will leave it there.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-29072.html
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-29072.html
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